from: K xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
date: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:45 PM
subject: Fwd: Shoes dress
If you post these, please leave the names out.
Thanks - Oh, and there's a Part 2 to this.
After she insults my choice in this email, she sent another where she contacts Toms customer service to inquire about returning the shoes, before I even see anything.
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 5:39 AM, Vxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi K…. I think the dress is awesome I need to have mine altered I obviously had it measured and fitted for me but I mean you know it is the standard size so I have to have it fitted down to fit perfectly so that it looks awesome or even awesomeror if that even is a word but it is great. I'm however worried I don't think that the shoes do it justice at all in fact even detract from how nice it is...
I took the shoes in with me when I picked up my dress and all the ladies at the bridal shop both young and old said that if you really wanted to wear those shoes with that dress you should really be above the knee at the very least because this shoes are so overpowering. On the bright side they are the right color navy which is very hard to do. But for a dress so beautiful they showed me a zillion options not because they were trying to sell them just because its better to have a very low Garden heel that is very thick and easy to walk on that looks very much like a sandal or even no heel at all and just go with the sandal that's elegant or whatever and just use those at the end of the night, they suggested.
Hope this makes sense I used dragon dictation during my commute!
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Kxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hey Vixx -
I'm happy that you like the dress! I have to ask, does it fall below the knee? Because I thought that it was supposed to be knee length. The look I was going for with the bridesmaids is similar to the attached pictures, most of which have knee length dresses with the Toms shoes. Could you send me a picture of you in the dress with the shoes so that I can get a better idea of the look. It might help me understand where the concerns and to decide if changing all of the shoes is the better option. Understand that the shoes may not be able to be returned and the money we spent on them as a gift and for achieving the look is something I was hoping wouldn't be an issue.
Please send a picture so that I can get a better idea of what's going on (it is hard to plan these things with everyone so far away). Also, I've attached some pictures to help you see the unconventional/quirky cute that reflects who I am. Hopefully it gives you a comparison for dress length? I was hoping for at the knee to just above the knee but I really don't know what the dress looks like in chiffon so that might change things.
Also, as I said before, you're welcome to dress up the canvas shoes however you would like in order to make it your own... (there's a picture for that as well)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: V xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Shoes dress
To: K xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It hits right at where the picture shows it hits: http://www.bestbridalprices.com/jasmine-b2-maternity-bridesmaid-dresses-style-b3085-p-81774.html?cPath=1131&designers=80
So, if you wanted it above knee, it'll definitely have to be hemmed...be a good 4 inches at least....chiffon will cost more to hem & there is an underskirt that is like a ruffled/poofy underlayer to give it a tiny big of volume (undetectable, it's just so that the chiffon doesn't do a cling-wrap thing to you, but if you hem it up too far that stuff might actually fling out and around like an 80s madonna like a virgin style...
I understand about not wanting to sacrifice the shoes, they aren't cheap, they were a gift to everyone, I LOVE tom's mission & what the company does and I am definitely going to wear them A LOT! at the same time...i can't force a fake "ya, um, they look okay" just to make them fit the bill for your wedding. you want everything in your wedding to look be and feel spectacular and years from now when you look at pictures of all of us you might wonder who picked out the bridesmaid's boat shoes for the middle of the summer with that kind of dress... not trying to be mean, just trying to be ridiculously honest - something I just do...because that's no only what you might think years from now when you look at photos, that's what all the guests are actually going to be thinking and we're all gonna say "kxxx made us wear these" lol!
But, going back to the shoes.... we can definitely dress them up- to match the dress, the wedding, each other, etc...i have LIMITLESS ideas when it comes to this stuff... i'm a craft magician...and I don't mean, let's giltter glue them....i can make shoes that princess kate would mistake for a royal hat for her head! kentucky derby shoes? ever hear of them? well, i might just invent them... it would be amazing to put a white/cream color rosette on each shoe (not too big) and then have a feather or two in an arrangement wrapping out from and around to frame the shoe, maybe with a few other exquisite details, subtle, but exquisite. In a way, it wuold be a metaphor for rags to riches and they'd also be going from (in a sense) something old to something new and of course, they are already blue... if you have while ones, we could decorate the same style-ish (or a mirror/suggestive) with a blue flower/feathers - essence of peacock? that'd be awesome under your long dress...the devil is in the details...
I think the biggest problem with the shoe style itself is not that they are canvas flats, it's that they are like a FULL coverage boat shoe canvas flat. I went to the website and saw the ballet flats style ones...you maybe could pass better with those - is it possible to do an exchange? If it's too much of a hassle, then forget about it. I also think it may have been better to not try to match the dress with a shoe like that and instead either go for something seriously neutral so that it's not overpowering (so you have to back that dress up), OR, go with something quirky and totally different altogether that simply says, yes! I DID pick out these fun, nontraditional shoes and they are SO different I want to showcase them, see how you can't help but look back and forth at my dress because you don't know *which* one is cooler???? Instead, the full coverage navy canvas shoe with the just below the knee dress kind of promotes a blind spot and not only do they not do the dress justice, they kind of overpower it.
I hate to tell you all this stuff because you have so much to plan & so much stuff going on & I'm hoping everything is going easily otherwise!! I just think when you put these altogether, you might regret it later on if not right away. I'll try to get xxx to get a picture of me in the dress with the shoes, but he keeps laughing at me and so do the kids (they call them granny shoes) and it's embarrassing and I KNOW you put everything on facebook (which i don't even have btw!!).
1.) the dress is SPECTACULAR as is- I definitely dont think we should hem it on account of those shoes - or ANY shoes!! the length is perfect! it's perfect! i was skeptical, but not i'm completely thrilled with it!!!
2.) the shoes are the frog to the princess dress. i love the shoes on their own and will wear them all the time for other reasons if we dont nd up using them for this wedding. if it's possible to exchange them without too much hassle, we should look into that versus having to hem the dress. the chiffon and the underliner of the dress may prove more of a hassle to hem then exchanging tom's shoes. nevertheless, if you still want to use those shoes, you MUST BELIEVE and TRUST FULLY, that I can come up with a MASTERPIECE for all of our shoes that might very likely make it into an art museum. If you're willing to go that route, I'd be willing to help out with all the girls' shoes so that the design is consistent. I know you haven't seen the sewing/craft/home decor/costume work that i've done for my paying clients, but I can assure you that you will be blown away!!!
from: K xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
date: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:49 PM
subject: Shoes and Dress Part 2
Here is the Part 2: where she sends the conversation between her and the Toms representative.
Again, no names when posting please! Thanks!
But yeah, I need to vent - I'm angry that 1) she's being stubborn and won't send a photo and 2) she flat out insults my choice in an attempt to bully me into what she wants.
By the way, this is my sister.
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Vxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi Kxxxxx- I just went on the Tom's website & chatted live w/ a customer service rep regarding returns/exchanges JUST SO THAT YOU KNOW IT'S A POSSIBLILITY THAT I AM WILLING TO COORDINATE FOR YOU - please don't feel pressured- I'm just trying to help & letting you know I'm willing to coordingate this if this is what the girls want to do... just in case all the girls want to do this.. Please don't feel pressured - I'm only trying to help so I'm pasting the chat conversation below so you can see exactly what the option for exchange/return is as a viable route:
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:04 PM, K xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
The other two girls love their shoes. and I love mine and Dxxxxx loves them on me with my dress. I know you don't like them, but if you're not even giving my style a chance and I hate to say it, but it's my wedding and my vision and I'm getting insulted by these emails.
Give me a chance to think about things because it was one of the things I really wanted for my wedding - a decision I made months ago (actually I was originally going to wear my Chuck Taylors but opted for the ivory Toms). They are not your style, I understand - but they are MY style. Please stop trying to force me into this decision because it's not your taste.
And please send a picture so that I can see and decide for myself. Thanks.
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Vxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
of course they look good with the wedding dress, tons of brides wear with long dresses with comfortable shoes because with a long dress you don't see the shoes anyway. lol.
i'm glad the other girls like their shoes with their dresses when they tried them on. it's funny mine took soo long to arrive at the bridal shop though- they seem to have gotten their dresses pretty quickly as I thought i was the first to order the dress - remember when we thought the navy color was different & you had to let the others know? oh well.
in any case, you asked me for my opinion about the shoes, about the dress, and about the shoes AND the dress and i took the time to give you an honest answer.
i'm sorry you feel insulted by my honest response and additionally by my suggestions for possible back-up plans in case the other girls had any of the same feelings as i thought an honest explanation, followed an offer to help in contingency options if needed was far better than simply stating "the shoes on their own are great, but put it with the dress and you get that 'just got out of the locker room at penn state; navy towel wrapped around & blue cozy slippers' look; you just need a navy turbie twist for the hair!". i certainly was not just going lie and say something like; "oh ya, i just love them, they're wicked cute...they're gonna be so comfortable...and they look so good". Sorry, but that would be a blatant lie and I just can't say that. I expect that when i ask someone for an honest opinion in my life that i think i can trust they could give me an honest answer - that's why I ask for their opinion in the first place.
OF COURSE it's your wedding Kxxx and it is and has been your vision. please don't get/stay defensive and emotional or misinterpret my feedback: i'm not trying to force you to do anything- you merely asked my opinion, and i gave you my truthful answer along with further explanation, in earnest. if you don't like my opinion, simply don't ask me for my opinion.
it's your wedding, you should have what you want, your style, your vision, the other girls should also have what they want and love. i'm totally happy for you and with all that and as long as you are happy that's all that matters.. if you really already know everything you want for your wedding and planned these shoes as your "vision" long ago, then why even ask?? it seems your decision has been made and you don't need a picture from me that would help you decide anyway. in any case, since the other girls already love their shoes with their dress and are also convinced they are great, i'm sure they'll have much more fun sending pictures back & forth with you as I have very limited time and I dont even have a facebook account... you can all decide among yourselves - i'll do whatever you want - it's your wedding. but, please don't ask me for my opinions anymore: just keep me in the loop. thanks!
On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:59 PM, Kxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
It's not that I was insulted because of the options you gave - It seemed parts of your email contained failed contempt where you called them "granny" and "boat" shoes. I was also insulted when you told me you couldn't send a picture because xxx and the boys were laughing at you, making fun of you due to the combination of shoes/dress that I chose. I know they are not your style, and you can give me your opinion - but there is a better way to do so than through insults.
I definitely did not appreciate that you contacted Toms about their return/exchange policy before I could even make a decision. I have to look at the wedding from a whole perspective and one pair of shoes that might not be your favorite may fit into the theme. The girls love the shoes; however, they do not have their dresses yet to try them on so I (and they) are curious as to how they look. It would help me decide whether or not to change the shoe color/fabric etc. if I could see what it looks like.
I can tell by your emails that you do not like the combination, but I don't know whether or I not I like it without seeing it. You could have been more tactful in how you approached telling me your opinion, you were very hurtful and it upset me quite a bit.
I am asking that you send a picture so that I can make a decision and so that we are not making last minute changes. I've been planning this wedding with people long distance for months. You have no idea how difficult it is to coordinate long distance with no one locally to help. Since you are the only person who has seen the combination, getting back feedback that basically says "you did a shitty job and you suck at planning your own wedding and your taste level is sub-par" is extremely hurtful and in no way helps me continue to plan this wedding or make a final decision on this matter.
If I had a picture, I might completely agree with you - I am counting on my bridesmaids to help me out with this; but I cannot not blindly have decisions made long-distance. It's been stressful enough getting all the information out. If you are unwilling to send a picture than I am at a loss and might have to go with the original shoe especially if the other girls don't receive their dresses until much later. At which point, I won't be able to change anything. So it's not just keeping you in the loop - I need your help and snide opinions aside, it would be helpful if I could see what it looks like.
If you could please send a picture, I would appreciate it. It would be keeping me "in the loop". Thanks!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Tom's Shoes Online chat re: returns/exchanges - option for ya! :)
Kxxxxx, my opinion on what the shoes look like with the dress have no bearing on how you are planning your wedding overall. I think you are overreacting quite hastily and rudely to my feedback and taking it way too personally and in turn taking it way out of context and beginning to implicate every other aspect of your wedding planning. Im not lying when the boys said "boat" and "granny" to describe the shoes and I won't apologize for their comments either nor my honest opinion about the shoes with the dress as they nor I were not trying to make insults either, merely observations of what the shoes looked like to them because we are ALL entitled to our own opinions. I get it Kxxxxx- it's your style, not mine, not th bridal shops, not the boys, nor xxxs, nobodys, its yours- u are unique- that's perfectly fine!!! Again though, If you don't want to hear my opinion then don't ask for it and if you ask me for my opinion and you don't agree with it don't FLIP out against me and every aspect of your wedding planning and style and who knows what's next...
Im not sorry for my own opinions, that would be dishonest, but I am sorry that all of my communication you feel you need to perceive as insult and it is really unhealthy. I'm quite shocked that you are upset that I contacted Tom's:it was only a preliminary inquiry to find out how difficult any kind of an exchange *might* be *if* we needed to go down that route after you expressed it would be a hassle for u at this point my only intent was to try to take some load off your shoulders: I did not give them your name nor any other details that would have related Kxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx's order to the purchases made at Tom's therefore it still stands as a simple general inquiry to their general process. I still see no harm in that- again, u need to understand that I made no decision for you, only provided you with additional information to HELP you make YOUR OWN choice. If you want to choose to be upset about that, then you are overreacting and turning this entire situation into something it certainly isn't just because you're mad that I don't like the shoes. So what. Get over it- I'm the one that has to wear them not you.
APPAREL FOR YOUR WEDDING DOES NOT COUNT AS A BRIDESMAIDS GIFT.
Also: Toms suck.
Do you even read this blog??