Thursday, February 6, 2014

white girl problems


Hi ESB,

My boyfriend hates the idea of marriage. But he really, really loves me. And I really, really love him. And I thought I didn't care about the whole marriage thing, but it turns out - oh hey, I really do want to marry him even though we already live together, have an adorable dog, and bought "commitment" rings. 

I would never ever break up with him over this, because he's awesome and we're awesome together.

So... HOW DO I GET OVER THIS DUMB FEELING?

Thanks, y'all are the best!

*****

Here's a by-no-means-exhaustive list of remedies that were suggested to me when I first started suffering from migraines:

Acupuncture
Talk therapy
Meditation
Medication
Exercise
Go on the pill
Go off the pill
Cut out dairy
Give up coffee
Quit your job

Perhaps one of the above would help you get over your dumb oh-hey-I-really-do-want-to-marry-him feeling.

Or: YOU COULD JUST FUCKING GET OVER IT



(Abject model courtesy of La Garçonne)

57 comments:

  1. Nope, this is a classic case of someone trying to de-validate a woman's feelings. No one has the right to tell you wanting to get married is a stupid feeling. I don't care what people say. Knowing someone is legally (and potentially spiritually) committed to you for life does change a relationship, even in subtle ways. If he doesn't give a shit, then it should be easy to do what is important to you. And he if is really opposed to marriage when you want it, then the question would be why? Don't tell your gut to be quiet. This is your life.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Exactly right.

      Delete
    2. I lived with a man for five years who 'didn't believe in marriage.' Who told me that it wasn't going to happen, although he was happier than he'd ever been. And then he was less happy for reasons that I couldn't change [namely, me] and then he just - walked out.

      This is a huge deal, ESB. Huge. Personally, I would never go into that situation again. Because it's a giant red flag that your feelings aren't important enough to consider or work through. Just saying.

      Delete
    3. Um...did you guys READ the question? She's not saying other people are telling her this feeling is 'dumb' she's saying she thinks it is 'dumb' and wants to get over it.

      Did you read the advice? ESB is saying that this kind of feeling is not going to be 'fixed' by something, you either get over it and break up, or get over is and don't break up. Those are the two likely options.

      He went into the relationship saying he doesn't believe in the idea of marriage. She went in thinking she could take it or leave it. Now she wants to get married, and he still doesn't.

      How is that 'a classic case of someone trying to de-validate a woman's feelings'?

      Am I the only one who read the post that way?

      Delete
  2. Look, to be honest -- this isn't a feeling you're going to "get over." It's either a dealbreaker, or it's not. Why does he hate the "idea" of marriage? Have you thought about couples counseling?

    And it's not "dumb" to want to get married. Weddings can be dumb, marriages are a whole different ballpark.

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  3. This is legit the worst advice I've seen from ESB.

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, comparing the desire to commit to another person for life to a headache is BS.

      Delete
  4. Hey ESB, considering that you're married yourself (so presumably it was important to you), and you have a website dedicated to weddings, marriage and giving advice to people on the associated difficulties that come with all of that (becuase it's clear that it's important, for a number of reasons, to a lot of people), I am completely flabbergasted by your response on this! People want to get married for all sorts of reasons, and just because someone is trying to tell herself that her strong, unexpected wish to get married is "dumb" doesn't mean that she BELIEVES it's dumb. And neither, I think, do you, really. Maybe try again?

    To the original poster, all I can say is, listen to what you're feeling. Try and find a way to talk to your guy. Between the two of you, if you love each other the way you seem to, I'm sure you'll be able to work it out. For what it's worth (9 years with the same guy, getting married this year), I've found it's the stuff I really want to "get over" that is most definitely the stuff I eventually realise I should be sharing with the person that I have chosen to spend my life with. You can do it!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Um... was this supposed to be sarcasm? Or something? Because if so it really didn't read. Otherwise this response is uncharacteristically waaaay thefuck off.

    OP - I second the above suggestions to talk to your partner and possibly try counseling. Try to figure out where you each stand and why and whether or not you can get to the same page. Maybe your desire to get married isn't that important after all, maybe it is. But you're going to have to go down that road and figure it out. If you just try to squash the feeling it'll only end up feeling bigger.

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  6. lady, you have two choices here:

    1. get over it.
    2. get over this guy and find someone who wants to get married.

    there's more to marriage than loving each other and being happy. you have to want the same things out of life for marriage to make sense. some people don't want to get married, and that's ok. there's nothing wrong with those people. maybe he'll change his mind, maybe he won't. but you have to ask yourself, what do YOU want more? marriage, or your boyfriend? there is not right answer here, and both avenues will most likely be somewhat hard. that's life.

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  7. the feeling isn't dumb. i mean, in a vacuum, yes, it is. but for you, as the product of a society that views marriage as the way to confirm, announce and cement certain relationships, it's an idea that's remarkably hard to suddenly ignore. it's hard when we want, as rational independent beings, to renounce something that doesn't work for our needs; however, that leaves us with a gaping void of what ELSE to do to calm our little rat brains' desire to Mark Things With Ceremonies And Documents.

    my suggestion: do, create, host or say something that's not a wedding but is SOMETHING that for your little rat brain serves the narcotic purpose of a marriage.

    all said with the utmost respect for marriage btw.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. rats and their damn documents.

      Delete
    2. Calling someone a rat and marriage a narcotic sure doesn’t sound like you are showing any respect for this person, or for marriage, so your sarcastic "all said with the utmost respect for marriage btw.” is probably the least respectful statement in that response.

      Get over yourself and don’t bother invalidating another person’s feelings just to make your morning a little brighter.

      Delete
  8. wait, can we go back to the migraines? did any of those actually work?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. my guess is the give up coffee probably made it worse... and could be the catalyst for this post?

      Delete
    2. My lifesaver has been rizatriptan... they have come a long way since they tried prescribing my 8 year old self codeine for migraines way back in the day.

      Delete
  9. y'all livin together with a dog and rings? doesn't sound to me like he hates the idea of marriage at all.

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  10. Wait...so ESB just "got over" migraines? I'm so confused.

    Please show us more sticks to hang random shit off of in your house.

    ReplyDelete
  11. even though your tagline is "an evil club of mean hipster brides" - your response is mean and offensive. the ladies above already spoke to this.

    also, how is wanting to get married or being frustrated with mismatching partner desires a "white girl problem"?

    ReplyDelete
  12. it alarms me that so many appear to expect loving, maternal advice from east side bride.

    her sympathy vacillates, guys. or are you only seeing the posts with all the <3s?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. but yeah, "white girl problems"? happy to call bullshit on that one. jesus.

      Delete
  13. I think ESB's just bored of this question. "Boyfriend doesn't believe in marriage" gave me 60+ million hits. It's probably been covered a lot.

    That said, OP: listen to your gut, like above suggested. Your feelings aren't dumb. Marriage isn't a perfect institution by a long shot, but you can't go on pretending that you're fine with being flatlined on the subject.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Dear everyone who responded - thanks for the good advice, and for not making me not feel more silly than I already do. :)

    PS - I'm not white.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OP, Thanks for this response. For what it's worth, I think the first anonymous response is the best advice.

      Delete
    2. "P.S. -I'm not white " hehe

      I think that about sums up this blog. At one point it was full of counter culture and fun pokes at the typical bride. However, I feel like it just picked up steam and became a place for saying mean BS just to say it.

      I've followed this blog for a couple years now, and I think I'll take a bit of a break.

      ESB you sound pretty angry/frustrated and in a different way than your awesome snarky self. Maybe, if you are bored with blogging you should just stop. AND maybe there is something going on in your life and you are projecting, but your responses, to me, reflect a juvenile, petty attitude.

      OP - He's wearing a commitment ring, maybe talk to him about just going to the courthouse and explain to him what it means to you. And then leave it open to him to think about - don't expect that he will change his mind because not being married (legally) may be just as important to him (or more so) than being married is to you. But most importantly, you should just tell him exactly what you wrote to ESB. I thought what you wrote was heartfelt and honest - perhaps, the man just needs to know that you feel that way you do?

      Delete
  15. Realize it's been said but in case it's still helpful, you don't need to get over this, because there's nothing wrong with what you're feeling. Have you told him you want to get married? Also, the world is full of smart independent couples who would totally love each other forever even if they never got married, but still decide to get married anyway. Because it means something to them. They don't suddenly become vapid tulle obsessed bubble heads because they want to formally commit to their partner in front of friends and family and benefit from the legal protection marriage provides them. Like someone posted above, a wedding is very different from a marriage, and marriage can be really fucking important.

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  16. So wait was this mean response just because she said y'all?

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  17. You need to understand why he doesn't want to get married, and why you do. It may well be that there is some way to fulfill both of your needs and wants, but until you really understand the origin of his objection-and of your own desire-you won't be able to figure that out.

    My husband seemed pretty anti-marriage for a while. We eventually talked about it, and to our mutual surprise he had no problem with marriage, he was just terrified of a wedding. Since a public wedding wasn't a deal breaker for me, I compromised and we got married in front of eight people. We've been happily married for a few years now. Turns out he's a great husband, he was just a very nervous and jittery groom.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think this is the best advice so far, find out WHY he doesn't want to get married.

      Maybe there's an obstacle that you can overcome, or several obstacles, or maybe he is against marriage philosophically/politically, or maybe he isn't 100% committed to you in his mind. Worth knowing which it is.

      Delete
  18. Where did you all come from? APW?????

    She didn't ask, "Is it valid for me, as a woman, to feel feelings about getting married?" she asked HOW DO I GET OVER THIS

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  19. She also said "I really do want to marry him." Like it or not, she's not getting over this until it is addressed and until she stops calling it a "dumb feeling." Being anxious about important life stuff that affects you and the people around you and IGNORING it is what teenagers do. Addressing it head on is what adults do. But sure, switch to decaf and read a magazine. Suppress what's important to you in order to maintain a false sense of peace in your relationship. I'm sure that'll work out just fine.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Wait. I know a couple people have commented on the inappropriate use of "white girl problems," but can we focus on this for a second?

    ESB-- why would you title this post "White Girl Problems?" Just, why? You had no idea whether the OP is white (she wrote that she isn't) and there was really no reason to go there.

    Non-white girls can have stupid problems. Non-white girls can be mean hipster brides, too. As a sort of non-white ESB reader, I find this weirdly alienating.

    Why couldn't it be "Privileged 20-Something Woman Problems," or "Stupid Almost-Engaged Woman Problems" or anything else, really? Why the fuck did it need to be about whiteness or non-whiteness?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes. This. It was so strange, so lame, so sad. The migraines thing and blowing people's problems off didn't bother me, but that was just fucking offensive. It's nice and all that ESB apologizes to the Anon who calls her out, but like, apologize to the OP pls? Or don't. It's the internet.

      And yeah I think ESB is a little bit done with the blog, which is fine. Make a new one about yoga or pricey minimalist home decor or something. I won't read it, but it will know what it is, and it won't disappoint people for that reason.

      Delete
  21. It was a lame attempt at comedy. OF COURSE non-white women suffer from relationship angst. Also migraines.

    For alienating you, I genuinely apologize.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I've really enjoyed this blog for the past year that I've been wedding planning. I come for the snark, to be sure. But this fucking crosses a line. If the question doesn't interest you, don't publish it. Jesus, it's so clear you're done with this blog, ESB - just end it. Give it a dignified death. You're acting like an immature partner in a dying relationship behaving like a dick until the other person breaks up with you instead of being a fucking adult and doing it yourself. Driving your readership away with (uncalled for) bitchiness and ennui. I'm out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This poster is probably creating a GOMI thread about ESB as we speak.

      Delete
  23. Hey, ESB. Anon 11:33 here. Thanks for responding to my comment.

    I think I'm feeling vulnerable and sensitive because of that xoJane post about black women and yoga (ugh). I can't go to yoga? I can't read ESB or ask public questions about my sometimes dissatisfying relationship? What the f.

    Anyway, thanks. I appreciate it.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Dear ESB, This was a really vicious response. Your evilness is no longer fun. Get over your mean, hipster self. And I'm no White Girl.

    ReplyDelete
  25. +1 that thinks you should better quit blogging if you don't care anymore (and you obviously don't).

    to the OP: good luck!

    ReplyDelete
  26. ESB - I (and many many others - just maybe not so many on this post) love your work, and know you are a fucking real person who has off days or just plain makes mistakes. This post is not even necessarily either of those things, but I thought it was worth saying if allt he "die blog die" from people reading of their own free Will was getting a bit much.

    I hope you keep writing, including about wedding stuff.

    People have to accept they are asking for advice on the internet (...!) and will get what they damn well get. You're not their registered health professional!

    You have nasty days and loving days. Don't we all.

    Please keep it up!

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    Replies
    1. This. 100% this.

      Delete
    2. Agreed. 100%. Don't leave us!

      Delete
  27. Yeah, this got real ugly, real fast. You can disagree with ESB's advice, but jesus. She's human. No wonder she doesn't want to do wedding shit anymore.

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    Replies
    1. Right? I mean I'm of the "that was terrible advice" opinion, but all the "stop blogging!!1!" shit is a little much.

      Delete
  28. Ugh god, I hate when ESB posts advice like that. You're so evolved that it's just that easy to do, isn't it, ESB? Why even post that e-mail? Glad to see a lot of the commenters agree.

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  29. when i first glanced at this post, having not read it, and saw the migraine talk i was reminded of a conversation with a friend who paid to have a call with a person who reads you... i don't know. not your aura. it isn't even in person. i think it's intuitive reading? so you send her a photo then you have 30 minutes to ask her questions about your life. like, should i make this career choice i am considering. she showed the intuitive reader a photo of her husband and asked about his migraines, after exhausting so many roads. including but not limited to going totally grain free. (like no quinoa, which blows my mind.) the intuitive pointed to sleep, i don't know the details, but i guess it's actually led to some progress. anyways when i read the actual letter i thought, hey she SHOULD call an intuitive reader!

    just saying. could help.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hang on. This person had such issues with migraines that he cut out quinoa and had his wife call an intuitive mind reader and yet he had never thought "hey maybe it's got something to do with sleep"?!?! WebMD could tell you that shit.

      Delete
  30. TO ESB: get over yourself.

    To the original questioner why post your question to from someone whose blog says it’s “an evil club of mean hipster brides”

    You can’t expect anything better than this sort of answer, really. I hope you can take what the other advice that was supportive and helpful to heart. Most of the responses here are clearly one or the other: hateful and spiteful or caring and supportive.

    As a psychiatrist, a doctor who prescribes medicine for true emotional illnesses, I say don’t turn this into your problem, it’s his and the best advice I read (until I got sick of reading negativity) was:

    “Nope , this is a classic case of someone trying to de-validate a woman's feelings. No one has the right to tell you wanting to get married is a stupid feeling. I don't care what people say. Knowing someone is legally (and potentially spiritually) committed to you for life does change a relationship, even in subtle ways. If he doesn't give a shit, then it should be easy to do what is important to you. And he if is really opposed to marriage when you want it, then the question would be why? Don't tell your gut to be quiet. This is your life.”

    Well said.

    ReplyDelete