Hi esb!
My bf of 9 years and I are planning to get engaged. We're not pre-engaged -- because what the hell does that even mean -- but we're looking at rings and talking about dates, etc. I'd really like to also give him something to commemorate the moment, but I'm stumped. Do you and/or your readers have any suggestions?
He does like watches, so I was considering getting him a really nice one, but as a non-watch person I don't even know where to turn for a well-designed watch for a stylish gentleman. I'm also definitely open to any non-watch suggestions. My budget is around $1200.
*****
I know shitall about watches, so I figured I'd ask Samuel Voerenbach (formerly of Martin Patrick 3, currently taking over NYC).
His answer was more vehement that I expected.... But also helpful. Vehement, and then helpful.
Here's Sam:
Here's Sam:
Wtf is pre-engaged? I keep seeing this get mentioned on your site and it drives me crazy. You've got a boyfriend -- hooray.
Anyway, I've got a pretty big disclaimer that is going to make me sound like a hater. Perhaps I'm just too traditional, but I don't think I like the idea of giving your boyfriend a gift when he proposes. Believe it or not most guys actually like giving things to their girlfriend/fiancée/whatever. It makes us feel responsible and makes us feel like providers and it makes us feel like we have a purpose and a person we're taking care of. To steal that thunder away from us by turning the whole situation around seems unnecessary given that he's about to do the most important symbolic thing in his entire life.
So all that said if you are looking at watches that can be somewhat wedding or engagement appropriate, for $1200 there are a couple different options. I'm going to make the assumption that because it's for a fairly important event you're looking at things that are maybe not quite formal but are still quite elegant overall. I would avoid anything with too many sporty functions like chronograph and stick with watches that are fairly simple-looking.
The two that come to mind right away are really anything from Longines or the Max Bill watch, which in the US you can get from Amieco.
The other thing you could do is look for used watches that are of a little bit higher provenance. This might still stretch your budget a little bit but most nice jewelry stores carry a small selection. Nicer antique stores, auction houses and eBay are also good places to look. If that were the case I would look for something like a Cartier Tank (which would be perfect for what you're looking for since it's such a classic style), the slim group from Ralph Lauren or my personal favorite Hermes Cape Cod.
(Max Bill Stainless Steel Watch from Amieco, $830)
The other thing you could do is look for used watches that are of a little bit higher provenance. This might still stretch your budget a little bit but most nice jewelry stores carry a small selection. Nicer antique stores, auction houses and eBay are also good places to look. If that were the case I would look for something like a Cartier Tank (which would be perfect for what you're looking for since it's such a classic style), the slim group from Ralph Lauren or my personal favorite Hermes Cape Cod.
(Vintage Hermes Cape Cod, $1600 on ebay)
Hope that helps!
At top: Jewelry designer Philip Crangi photographed by Ben Watts sporting his own Hermes Cape Cod via The Dandy Project via GQ
At top: Jewelry designer Philip Crangi photographed by Ben Watts sporting his own Hermes Cape Cod via The Dandy Project via GQ
We did something similar... in fact, my honey is getting two watches! I gifted him something similar to this one a few months after our engagement:
ReplyDeletehttp://goo.gl/hBRSs
And the morning of the wedding, I am sending one similar to this but a little slimmer/simpler over as a gift as well:
http://goo.gl/82abJ
What can I say? My honey is very generous with me and frankly needed a good casual and a good dressy watch. Plus, he's wanted a Movado like his father's for as long as I can remember, and that's what I am hoping will make this gift just that much more meaningful to him.
Short answer: Buy the man a watch. Surprise him with it a couple of days/weeks after he proposes. Or you can wait til the wedding.... or both, like me!
"My Honey"... BARF!
DeleteTWO watches?! I second the barf.
DeleteShe's not calling either of you by a pet name nor is she buying you the watches so maybe fuck off a little bit?
DeleteOmg. . .asshole alert. "My honey" is infinitely better than "DD" or the dread "hubs." Do you bitches only own a single watch?? Please.
DeleteWhat does DD stand for?
DeleteSeriously, what does it stand for? My brain immediately went to "Designated Driver".
Deleteum, i think it stands for "Dear Daughter"?
DeleteNo clue what DD stands for, but google came up with this and I am SO entertained. http://www.acronymfinder.com/DD.html
DeleteOkay, Amy, your link makes me think it could be Detroit Diesel or Duran Duran. :)
DeleteAnon 10:12, help us out here.
I'm thinking Darling Dear? -not Anon 10:12
DeleteI think that's a love idea and I recommend UniformWares watches. I gave one to my husband for Christmas last year and he loves it.
ReplyDeleteThese are amazing and you just found my partner's Christmas gift!
Deletethese are gorgeous! i want one for myself now.
DeleteI agree that it's a lovely idea. (Sam, I don't mean to be rude, but the whole provider/carer thing did have me rolling me eyes... is your manhood that fragile ;) ).
DeleteI'll echo Uniform Wares. I got my boyfriend one last Christmas and was hoping to upgrade him to a fancier one for our wedding, but alas, he's getting a matte black Timex instead. Wedding budget and all. But these are amazing. He's worn the one I gave him for Christmas every single day since and it looks brand new. It's the least expensive model (the 100?) and it's nice and solid.
DeleteSteal his thunder? Give me a break.
ReplyDeleteThis.
DeleteMy now-husband would have loved a gift. I actually intended to get him, but I'm not sure I ever did...oops. We talked about a signet ring or some sort of locket or something.
ReplyDeleteMy (and Rob's) buddy Max sells some awesome watches in his shop Buckshot Sonny's, but they might be less fancy or classic then you are thinking.
Good grief Sam. You do realise you're writing for ESB's readers, right?
ReplyDeleteYeah, seriously...
DeleteWhat a dick.
ReplyDeleteMy husband is also a watch guy, but I have never bought him one. Why? Because he knows a lot better than I do what he likes. I don't want to spend a ton of money on something that might not be right. Similarly, I would not want him to spend a significant amount of money on jewelry without my input. (Only partly because he gets all butt-hurt if I don't like something he buys...) If it were me, I'd probably keep the cost more in the $200 range. But maybe I am just cheap/cowardly.
ReplyDeleteRe: pre-engaged, only George Michael on Arrested Development can get away that. Stupid concept. I remember when my husband and I were still dating, saying something to a friend about planning to get married blah blah blah, and she just said, "If you're planning to get married, doesn't that mean you're engaged?" Yup, pretty much.
Yeah. I bought my husband a watch. I got it wrong. He still loves me ;-), but next time he comes along for major purchases.
DeleteYeah, if you're spending a significant amount of money, the guy should probably get a say in the matter. Then again, maybe your guy isn't too picky and absolutely loves surprises. But I know that I'd want a say.
DeleteI think giving your future husband a great gift is an awesome idea. Stealing his thunder? You have got to be kidding. I wanted to buy my husband an engagement ring midway into our engagement simply because it seemed silly for me to have one and him to wait, but in the end we had one custom made, so it really couldn't be a surprise.
I think the chronograph question is actually a matter of taste. Some men will prefer a simple looking watch like those above, but my own husband picked up a watch with lots of bells and whistles on the display and loved it. So it might be worth reviewing what accessories he gravitates towards already (simple frames or artsy ones for his glasses? Simple cufflinks or more ornate? Clean loafers or ones with tassels? Etc.) But I do think it's a lovely idea, especially since the gift of a watch to your future husband is a traditional groom's gift.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.watchismo.com
ReplyDeleteUm, yikes, if my (now) fiance was that committed to gender roles that he felt threatened by my getting him an engagement gift, he most certainly would not be marrying me. Also, since I've known him for 9 years, I probably have a better sense of when a gift would make him feel happy/loved/uncomfortable than some judgement based entirely on his possession of a Y chromosome.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, those are beautiful watches. Especially that Hermes one; I had not considered looking for higher end, used watches, so I really appreciate the tip. Thank you, all, for the links in the comments, too!
EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID. Including that the Hermes watch is sick.
DeleteAgree, agree, agree.
DeleteWell first off, congratulations.
DeleteTo the apparent issue at hand - I don't think it's an unreasonable
conclusion given the context of the situation you describe (shopping
for engagement ring and engagement watch simultaneously) that the idea
was to exchange both a ring and a watch. If that were the case I just
can't help but feel that that type of trade trivializes the fact that
he just said the most important four words of his life so far - saying
yes is all the commemoration necessary for that moment. It appears I'm
in the minority in that belief. Obviously, you're already engaged and
it sounds like you're still watch hunting, so I guess it's a
moot point anyway.
In regard to gender roles/traditionalism/me being kind of a dick, I hold firm to the idea that proposing makes men feel all of the
things I describe in varying degrees. They are some of the many reasons we enter meaningful relationships and have kids and go to our jobs every day.
While those traits aren't exclusively masculine, there are very few instances in contemporary society that such roles are recognized and weddings TEND to be one of them even at the most non-traditional ceremonies. I've been to plenty of those and in most instances the bride still wore white and had her Dad walk her down the aisle. I don't think that suggestion puts me out of touch with the modern world.
Hey Sam, thanks for your thoughtful defense of the "traditional" proposal and embrace of reality when it comes to gender norms. But I still don't see how, by her giving him a watch to "commemorate the occasion," it would "steal his thunder" or "turn the whole situation around." It sounds like she wants to make a meaningful gesture as she pronounces an equally important one or two words in her life. This was evident from the original post.
DeleteWhat rubbed me the wrong way with your initial response is how you made a knee-jerk judgment of this couple's obviously more mutual and gender-neutral approach to their engagement. You assumed that he was proposing to her, but there's nothing in her original message that suggests this. She uses very mutual terms ("he and I are planning to get engaged," "commemorate the moment"), which I think is all wonderful. I don't think it's that rare these days, and certainly not among more indie and/or feminist-leaning crowds. This is what made you made you seem out of touch to me. Know your audience!
Finally, your plea about how proposing / giving things to their female partners makes guys feel purposeful, providing, able to enter meaningful relationships, have kids, go to work -- i.e. totally normal things that lots of responsible well-adjusted people do -- only serves to guys come across as pathetic. I'm sure some ladies find the material-giving-as-providing-as-caring thing romantic or sweet. I for one think it's sort of sweet but misguided. My partner had damn well have more up his sleeve than a proposal and some bling! I know you didn't say that that's all that matters, but you certainly implied it. And just because it's the way it is, doesn't mean it should be.
~"there are very few instances in contemporary society that such roles are recognized"
DeleteAre you kidding me?
(just off the top of my head: what about the absence of / inequality of maternity / paternity leave? what about the gender pay gap? what about the underrepresentation of women at higher levels in corporations / government? These things are real and they ALL support the male role as economic actor, as provider. And apparently the engagement needs to be all about men too? Wow have you missed the point.)
Yes, mary wept! Yes.
DeleteAmen. Sheesh. I'm a woman, and I'm a provider too, dammit! RARRR.
ReplyDeleteOh and guess what? Some ladies actually propose to their dudes nowadays.
Get with the times.
I gave my mister an engagement ring about halfway through our engagement (we had/have a longer one). He loves it and calls it his "man-gagement" ring haha. He was frustrated/envious that everyone knew I was off the market but so many random girls/gay guys assumed he was free for the taking until our wedding. For the actual wedding day I'll be getting him a watch though, so I loved all these recommendations!
ReplyDeleteOh, and the engagement ring will serve as a backup for his wedding band when we go camping, when its getting cleaned, etc etc
ReplyDeleteThis.
ReplyDeletetry a beautiful and playful M&co watch. I bought my partner the 10-One-4 watch and he loves it - it's included in MOMAs permanent collection. All of the styles are inscribed with 'waste not a moment' on the back.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.projectswatches.com/m-and-co/
ummm.. why are all the ladies getting so defensive over here..?? We like it or not, there are some 'gender roles' that do apply to most of the people. Heck, we even like them! How many times do men post on this blog asking about/ sharing their wedding woes? Well..they don't usually! Then, why do so many independent, self-sufficient, smart, grown-up women do? Don't most of the girls expect the guy to propose? I have heard so many times that the wedding is the bride's day? So, whats the big deal ladies in letting the guy have a day to himself as well!!
ReplyDeleteDid you accidentally pop over from weddingbee love? I do NOT expect my guy to propose to me (and the whole, down-on-one knee thing makes me want to cringe). Hearing that wedding's are "all about the bride" is equally cringe-worthy. So please count me out of your idea about what 'independent, self-sufficient, smart, grown-up women' really want.
DeleteYou must be new here.
ReplyDeleteI bought my Hubs a watch when we got engaged. As much as he wanted to give me something significant, I wanted to do the same. He'd wanted a Movado since he was 12 (and almost bought one instead of his first car). So I spent more than half the money I made as a sleep away camp counselor (I earned every freaking cent of it!) on a beautiful watch, that was light (as these things go) and self-winding with a transparent back so you can see the gears (features my engineer loves). To get him a fancier one than I could have otherwise afforded, I bought it at the Movado outlet.
ReplyDeleteHe wore it to our wedding, and he wears it on the daily. I love seeing him wear it as much as I imagine he enjoys seeing me wear my ring.
I'm not sure if it's this exact one, but it looks similar to this: Luno Sport
i bought my husband a guitar as an engagement gift. i certainly heard no complaints.
ReplyDeleteWhat a good idea!
DeleteIf $1200 for a gift is nbd to you, then just get a watch.
ReplyDeleteIf you've been saving and that's a hard won $1200, I'd say you should be REALLY careful and make sure he'll LOVE whatever you pick.
A lot of people have suggested an engagement ring for your affianced, and while that also goes against Sam's advice, I think it's a good idea. I got my fiance one when we were still engaged and he loved it. He didn't feel undermined or unhappy about it at all (But he's also not THAT TYPE). He was very happy to get me a ring and to provide for me and do this sweet symbolic thing. And he was also happy that I got him a gift and that he got a ring too and that I tried to get him something nice.
Agreed.
DeleteI bought my partner's ring for him and he bought mine for me. They cost about the same. He wanted to 'show the world' that he was engaged (now married). At the time, I thought it was really sweet and wonderful. I still do.
We provide for each other. That's kind of how the whole thing works.
As a man who is obsessed with watches I would personally recommend going with a vintage watch. In your price range that's going to be the best value. Omega, Hamilton, Movado, Gerard Perregaux, Jaeger LeCoultre are all great manufacturers whose watches stand the test of time. For $1200 you're looking at watches from the 1950's, 60's and early 70's.
ReplyDeletebe careful about size. anything smaller than 34mm in diameter without the crown will probably be too small for him. Additionally, make sure the dial and hands are original to the watch and haven't been restored.
Vintagetime.com and Wannabuyawatch.com are two great sites I've bought multiple watches from.
Good luck, and don't let him become a collector :)
kevin
thanks, buddy. :)
DeleteI don't think Sam is being a dick, but he is really insecure if he's threatened only by a stranger's email. Lighten up dude. Just b/c you're so subscribed to gender rolls doesn't mean you can't graciously accept a wonderful gift from the woman you love. It's not like getting a diamond encrusted watch via bended knee with a fireworks display on a jumbotron at a Steelers game.
ReplyDelete"Gender roll" conjures up many delicious and funny images:)
DeleteLol omg. Oops! Ah, darn it.
DeleteDon't apologize! Some mistakes are wonderful:)
DeleteWhatevs, I proposed to my husband with a ring and he was ecstatic, not put out as this dude implies. Then again, I could be considered a "provider" in our relationship (whatever the fuck THAT means). A watch sounds like a cool option...I say good luck to you!
ReplyDeleteHey Sam, don't let these ladies tell you how you should feel and what you should think about your role as a man.
ReplyDeleteIf proposing to a woman with a ring makes you feel responsible, like a provider, like it's the biggest moment of your life... Makes you feel like you have a single purpose higher and more important than anything else in that moment.
Well, I kinda think that's romantic.
"don't let these ladies tell you how you should feel and what you should think about your role as a man"
Deletehahahahahahah
what about the menz!
Exactly. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteSo if we've gotten to a place in the feminist frame of mind that women should have the opportunity to choose what kind of life they want, what kind of role they want in their relationships, if we respect women who choose to be mothers and stay at home moms, why can't we respect men who choose to be providers and would like to follow tradition? Are those two concepts so far fetched? Am I wayyy out there on this one?
ReplyDeleteYou're spot on.
DeleteAgreed. But not if said men normalize their choice to most or even all men, when this question was about a specific couple that seems pretty gender-egalitarian or whatever you want to call "the guy might appreciate the girl getting him an engagement watch." He didn't seem to respect that, so I can't bring myself to respect his little theory that men (in general) want to be providers.
Deleteand NOT you know, when mens view of how their world should be impinges on women's (or even a single woman's) freedom of action. HA. That'd never happen right? Ohhhh. wait.
DeleteKaty, it's what Anon 10:14 said - he's free to think and feel how he wants. But it's ASSUMING that ALL men will feel the same that is the really annoying thing about his post (which is then reinforced by his comment/response above).
DeleteA watch is a nice gift. He'll probably have it forever and think of you when he looks at it.
ReplyDeleteOkay kiddos, let's be real. You want to be snarky assholes to every single person who writes in, but can't handle it when someone else does something similar and it doesn't agree with your particular brand of How The World Should Be? Please. Take a deep breath and get over yourselves.
ReplyDeletewait, where was he a "snarky asshole"? He was pretty polite, albeit also reactionary and sexist.
DeleteThere is no snark. . .just sexism.
DeleteThe very fact that men feel entitled to a role as 'provider' (and so, by implication women who do not stay in a role as non-provider, or dependant, are violating or disrespecting the male right) just reinforces everything society tells us about gender roles. It is all part of the pervasive culture that tells us that women should adapt their behaviour to male norms.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens if I earn more than you? Do I need to quit my job and stay home so that your delicate testicles don't shrivel up and fall off?
Sure that's not what Sam is saying to me, or to OP, but he is applying his reactionary viewpoint to couples generally. ("I personally prefer when women act in a certain way, therefore all women everywhere should act in a certain way")
And Fuck that noise.
(and yeah, I now have an ebay alert set up for the Hermes cape cod. Samuel has excellent advice on watches)
DeleteThis is exactly it. Sam is basically saying that a man's right to feel like a good provider outweighs a woman's right to do what she wants to do (which, interestingly enough, is to give a generous gift--wow, she must be a huge feminazi bitch, right?).
DeleteFor the record, I am a huge feminazi bitch, nice engagement gift or no.
DeleteI agree with Sam, but not for his reasons. I think whoever does the proposing can give the gift. Imagine if you gave someone a birthday gift and they immediately gave you a gift in return. Nothing wrong with it, but it feels a little off, right? If it were me (AND IT'S NOT SO DO WHATEVER FEELS RIGHT FOR YOU) I would save the dude's engagement gift for a week or a month later, unless you're the one proposing to him.
ReplyDeleteGiving a birthday gift is not the same thing as an engagement gift. These are not analogous.
DeleteI didn't say they were. I said there was nothing wrong with giving a return gift; some people (like me, AND I AM NOT YOU) just feel kinda funny about it.
DeleteJust for the needless sake of further sharing my opinions, I'll also add that being a feminist doesn't mean you have to eschew gender roles. It means you are not trapped by or defined by them.
To each their own. Live and let live. Blah blah blah.
What the heck are you talking about, ALLCAPSJULIEWHOISNOTME!
DeleteYeah actually you *did* say birthdays and engagements are analogous for the sake of demonstrating how a return gift "feels a little off" (even if not "wrong"). It's definitely off for birthdays, which celebrate one person's milestone; it's definitely not off for engagements, which symbolize a commitment two people make to each other.
Blah blah blah yourself.
People give each other christmas gifts in return. Just thrown' that out there.
DeleteI was hoping for watch recommendations without the side of sexism. I hoped for too much. I tried to just focus on the watches (because I am saving to buy one for myself) and I just spent hours gazing at the screen trying to put into words how pissed my uterus got over this "provider" bullshit. And I need to get back to work instead of being upset because, like, my paycheck "provides" the funds for half the bills in our household.
ReplyDeleteI think I love you, Anon 7:36
DeleteI gave my husband art as an engagement present. I felt weird with the giving being one-way and kind of wanted an excuse to buy a piece of art from an artist we'd both loved for years but could never justify buying. I surprised him, told him I wanted to buy him a signed piece, took him to the shop and told him to choose whichever he liked best. He loved it. The piece will always remind us of a particular place and time in our relationship.
ReplyDeleteI feel like every couple is different, and just because Sam does not favor a reciprocal engagement gift, does not mean he speaks for every man.
ReplyDeleteAm i the only one who can't stop staring at the model in the photo.
ReplyDeletedid you click this link?
DeleteWow, so much overreacting. A reader wrote in because she wanted advice from a person with an opinion and that's what she got. Sam was simply stating that she should consider that her fiance might react unfavorably to being given a gift when he proposes. Also, he said that men like to feel like they're the provider, not that they have to be the sole provider in a relationship.
ReplyDeleteAlso, $1200 for a watch? Is this seriously how much watches cost?
watches cost WHATEVER YOU WANT THEM TO COST. much like engagement rings.
DeleteYour point don't make no sense here Hallie. His whole schtick was that men like to be the provider - and that even a gift from a women threatens this. If you can't accept a reciprocal gift (!!) then you're clearly pretty uncomfortable with sharing the provider title with your partner in any way.
DeleteShe wrote in asking about watch recommendations - not opinions about how she should behave within her own relationship!!! (also, she asked ESB - who then chose to ask Sam. ESB wouldn't have spouted this crap, obviously (though she would have read his reply first.. and I bet she posted it with full knowledge of the onslaught that would ensure, amiright ESB? ;)).
Delete*ensue
DeleteWell, his response was described as "vehement" in the post and some folks responded vehemently. That sounds about the right reaction.
ReplyDeleteGotta say I'm loving the comments on this one. Three lines in I was like, oh man, this guy's gonna get strung out to dry. (Rightfully so, IMO.) I can imagine ESB chuckling to herself as she hit publish on this one, knowing the shit storm it was about to unleash...
ReplyDeletehaha, I thought (and wrote) the same thing above. I have a clear visual of ESB in a swivel chair, holding a white cat and slowly doing the 'evil man hands'
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletei know this is a few days late, but i bought my husband (then boyfriend) this skagen watch last year for our anniversary. i know it's way under your budget, but i thought i'd throw it out there. it has a really thin band and looks much better on than it does in that shitty picture. good luck with everything! :)
ReplyDelete