tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post1279533431955215432..comments2024-03-24T23:51:25.945-07:00Comments on east side bride: Dear ESB (from a harassed bride yay)esbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00215882729011442570noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-19477467674152550972013-06-17T22:30:53.578-07:002013-06-17T22:30:53.578-07:00Why is it always my job as a woman to teach men th...Why is it always my job as a woman to teach men that it's inappropriate to make lewd comments about my body? Are you serious? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-79500623610135204662013-06-11T07:33:16.612-07:002013-06-11T07:33:16.612-07:00" It doesn't mean they don't think it..." It doesn't mean they don't think it sober, its just mean they know its not quite right. " <br /><br />If you had bothered to read the whole thing you'd realize I'm saying exactly what your saying. <br /><br />I was trying to point out that being drunk doesn't excuse the behavior, that he is like that in everyday life and just censor himself. In other words now she knows what kind of person he is and what kind of things he thinks/says when she's not around.<br /><br />Also nobody can change his mind for him, he's the one who need to grow. It doesn,t mean he can,t be talked to, educated, or given information. But he's the one who needs to want the change otherwise... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-65507464144520911762013-06-10T13:25:07.382-07:002013-06-10T13:25:07.382-07:00These comments are at the very least showing me lo...These comments are at the very least showing me loud and clear that I'm not a feminist and I probably never will be. <br /><br />I feel bad the OP was upset by a jerky comment but also acknowledge this sort of thing is something I might say, as a straight woman. Wonder what everyone would have said if it was a chick who'd said it? Would it still be objectifying or is it cool to compliment someone's tits if you yourself have them? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-77649140225835458482013-06-10T09:07:30.644-07:002013-06-10T09:07:30.644-07:00Easier said than done to say something right away....Easier said than done to say something right away....I have the tendency to speak up when someone says something that's not cool, and often times people are super-defensive after putting their foot in their mouth, like Z did. In situations like this, gaslighting often follows..."calm down", "don't be so uptight", "I was just joking, it's no big deal." And we learn over time to just STFU pretty quickly because nobody wants to be thought of as frigid or uptight...<br /><br />Her feelings are valid. I'm sure many of you have read this:<br />(ugly link to follow, be warned)<br /><br />http://thecurrentconscience.com/blog/2011/09/12/a-message-to-women-from-a-man-you-are-not-%E2%80%9Ccrazy%E2%80%9D/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241445431705366119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-6343711410511537652013-06-10T08:15:30.232-07:002013-06-10T08:15:30.232-07:00"...that they said something they would norma..."...that they said something they would normally censor."<br /><br />See, weird, I don't think censored sexism is that much better than uncensored. If he's sitting around all the time objectifying the OP it's actually for the best that he said something because at least maybe there's a chance somebody could change his mind for him or make him think about why that's unacceptable. Drinking didn't make him sexist, it just showed up his sexism. He's still sexist, so what difference does it make what substance he had in him? Janiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10218434837483695837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-52699578672125027002013-06-10T08:09:08.192-07:002013-06-10T08:09:08.192-07:00I think he was actually referring to OP's fian...I think he was actually referring to OP's fiancee. It confused me for a while but now I'm pretty sure that's what he meant...Janiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10218434837483695837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-9404265915911283752013-06-10T08:06:17.563-07:002013-06-10T08:06:17.563-07:00I think the fact that Z spent zero time thinking a...I think the fact that Z spent zero time thinking about his comment is precisely the problem. In his world, valuing a woman solely based on her appearance is totally normal and he assumes everyone is doing it. Right in front of her is cool, too. Somebody needs to help this guy think.Janiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10218434837483695837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-49361699895453502452013-06-09T20:12:49.392-07:002013-06-09T20:12:49.392-07:00Yes.Yes.Erikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750659066802561501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-85916526627159907872013-06-09T13:40:32.370-07:002013-06-09T13:40:32.370-07:00Holy shit thank you.Holy shit thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-45135757756703069282013-06-09T10:38:36.371-07:002013-06-09T10:38:36.371-07:00I consider myself a feminist and agree with ESB bo...I consider myself a feminist and agree with ESB both on name-changing and her response to this question. While drunkenness SHOULDN'T be an excuse for bad behavior, it is a mind-altering substance and just like certain psychological disorders, cognitive disabilities, and other mind-altering drugs it can change what a person says/does. So while it would be great if no one ever drank enough that they said something they would normally censor, that isn't reality. And we all think things that we know aren't quite right. I am a straight, average-breasted female and I was recently out with an acquaintance/ casual friend and was shocked by the shirt she was wearing that just displayed so much cleavage. This has never happened to me before, but I simply couldn't stop thinking about her breasts. We were in a bar for 4 hours and literally I had to force myself to look at her face every time I looked at her. I wasn't drinking (pregnant) but if I had been, I probably wouldn't have been able to stop myself from saying something. I did hear the gay men at the table next to me comment and mentioned it to my husband as soon as we were separated from the other couple because I could only imagine how those were on his mind all night too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-62362829042086001022013-06-09T10:27:00.777-07:002013-06-09T10:27:00.777-07:00OP, this additional information is really helpful ...OP, this additional information is really helpful (as is the comment by Anon 8:08). Since you did say something and it was clear in the moment that you were upset by the comment I think it is perfectly reasonable to just passively stop hanging out with this guy. And not invite him to the wedding. Based upon his wording and my experience with guys I assumed he had no idea that you were upset by the remark (and so I was in the lighten up group), but that's clearly not the case.<br /><br />One more idea though, and that depends upon whether the number of invitations he has extended since the incident are normal or not: might he be trying to apologize since he hasn't had the opportunity to talk with you since learning you were upset by the remark? You know this guy better than any of us do, but if he's generally nice and has a great girlfriend who totally belittled him on the drive home he might be trying to make nice but wants to see you in person. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-72040331797585919302013-06-09T01:31:44.864-07:002013-06-09T01:31:44.864-07:00Impossible! Impractical! Unsustainable! A pain in ...Impossible! Impractical! Unsustainable! A pain in the arse!<br />unfounddoorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01875652207010327188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-68330882557430429522013-06-08T22:37:43.464-07:002013-06-08T22:37:43.464-07:00Man, I would not invite them and leave it at that....Man, I would not invite them and leave it at that. I bet he knows what he did. They are acquaintances, right? It's your wedding. If he was a close friend It would be a different story. Good on ya for speaking up in the moment. And congrats on your marriage. Glad it's not to that jerk. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-62899169169552979172013-06-08T20:20:49.421-07:002013-06-08T20:20:49.421-07:00God... This argument is so stupid. If you're o...God... This argument is so stupid. If you're offended by something, speak up. Otherwise, you pretty much lose the right to complain. <br /><br />If he doesn't know he did something wrong, how the hell do you expect him to fix it??kathleen // scout + lillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08031785844078458559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-41404134774001128092013-06-08T19:59:17.199-07:002013-06-08T19:59:17.199-07:00Thank you.Thank you.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06252178356338491098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-17114478282551907852013-06-08T16:46:00.292-07:002013-06-08T16:46:00.292-07:00And Anon 8:08 this is such a great and helpful com...And Anon 8:08 this is such a great and helpful comment. Thank you!Mary Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02465919515883858255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-87333540324256742562013-06-08T16:44:49.724-07:002013-06-08T16:44:49.724-07:00Wow, good for you, OP! So you did express yourself...Wow, good for you, OP! So you did express yourself--quite clearly-- and these men didn't reach out to you to apologize? That really sucks. I totally get why you don't want to be friends with this douche anymore. Again, awesome job standing up for yourself! xoxoMary Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02465919515883858255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-88217735895341934952013-06-08T15:52:06.298-07:002013-06-08T15:52:06.298-07:00Oops-- should have gone above (to the Original Pos...Oops-- should have gone above (to the Original Poster's comment, duh). But this comment also rocks. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-57085677950611584292013-06-08T15:51:24.104-07:002013-06-08T15:51:24.104-07:00You rock, OP. You rock, OP. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-51895289011111575132013-06-08T13:21:08.466-07:002013-06-08T13:21:08.466-07:00Hahaha oh good lord you're right. We all want ...Hahaha oh good lord you're right. We all want it to say "IMPOSSIBLE."Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595494907833218390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-44280543592149557822013-06-08T10:21:14.001-07:002013-06-08T10:21:14.001-07:00Argh, use=usArgh, use=uslaurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299420943796924888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-30297038646177302452013-06-08T10:19:08.856-07:002013-06-08T10:19:08.856-07:00Anon 10:46 and Mary Anne said what I thought of wh...Anon 10:46 and Mary Anne said what I thought of when I read Celia's first comment. I would just add that comments made by women and men are not the same, the same way "reverse racism" is not the same as racism. Power differentials matter, even if we don't want to admit them because they make use feel less powerful. But yes, I'm all for grabbing that power back whenever we can. So speak up or let it go. <br /><br />How many other women have let comments from this guy slide, and so he'll never learn that you can flatter a woman with more sophistication than 'you're stacked'?<br /><br /> I find more than the mention of her boobs offensive--that's just inarticulate and crass; it's the implication that her looks are her highest value and the only explanation for her inclusion in a wedding party. That is objectification, full stop.<br /><br />And no, I've never heard women talk about a man's bulge in front of a man in full seriousness.laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299420943796924888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-8986948229612411102013-06-08T09:53:14.558-07:002013-06-08T09:53:14.558-07:00Hey, OP here --
These comments have both been sup...Hey, OP here --<br /><br />These comments have both been super helpful to me as a bride and woman, and also a fascinating Rorschach test. <br /><br />Your comment in particular was really touching (and so many were). Thank you so much. I did immediately tell the group, "I'm about to Hulk out right now. Fuck you guys," and left the bar, with no hint of me joking or thinking that what Z said was acceptable. In the future, I want to take your specific advice and use a more pointed approach.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-5874740737776914802013-06-08T08:49:19.730-07:002013-06-08T08:49:19.730-07:00Umm... "unavoidable" doesn't work th...Umm... "unavoidable" doesn't work there either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6468279200135971946.post-48165745369191888332013-06-08T08:25:31.887-07:002013-06-08T08:25:31.887-07:00This is the most reasonable and conscientious resp...This is the most reasonable and conscientious response in the comments section. Yes, yes, yes, Ms. K. THISSSSSSSSS.kjnoreply@blogger.com